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Post by orangeparka (MIA) on Jul 17, 2013 22:06:18 GMT -5
Yeah, that's a whole different thing. Changing sim sched won't do anything to help that.
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Post by rockman (GSW) on Aug 10, 2013 13:02:20 GMT -5
So I think it's important for a sim league like this to build a history. One of the best things about online sim leagues is the development of rivalries and new team legacies, league recrods yada yada yada. Personally I would like to get through about 4 or 5 seasons every year.
As much as I love how in depth all the draft stuff is, (And I really do love it, it's an amazing feature that is getting me really excited for the draft) If that is the only thing stopping us from a faster sim schedule then I wouldn't mind cutting back on it only due to the sole fact that as it stands now we could still be in this league 5 years from now and only be about 10 seasons in. (Still not that much history as a league)
So what I propose is adding an extra day or two to the sim schedule OR
At certain points in the season like late Nov-Jan and March, the lull/points of the season, change the sim speed to 5+ days and whip right through them. Once we get closer to the trading deadline or to the playoffs/in playoffs etc, slow it back down so people can write articles, have time to make trades etc.
As I said we are building a new league and the best part about sim games is seeing the history the league takes on. I just want to make sure this league has a fighting chance to build that history.
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Post by Myles (SAS) on Aug 10, 2013 13:23:56 GMT -5
My personal standpoint is this: I like to develop a connection with my players, and that is best done when the sim moves a little slower. Sim leagues that move quickly are more prone to trade frenzies, and I hate seeing teams change wholesale every week or two weeks.
As far as the draft is concerned, it's the scouting reports that are the time-consuming part, and speeding up the sim would mean getting out more scouting reports in less time. It's just not feasible.
Lastly, the commish team wanted this league to be similar to the NLL, an online sim league that has been going on since 2003. It is notoriously slow, even slower than this league. From 2003-2013, the league has gotten through about 16 or 17 sim seasons, but the history there is RICH. The reason for that, in my opinion, is that the leagues are not rushed. Sure, it takes longer to develop the history, but it gives everyone time to write articles and have those back and forth interactions.
Think about this: If we speed up our sims, and get through a sim month in a real life week, that allows people very little time to write about things that happened that month. What is history if we can't write it down? If I have just my weekend to write about the month that just flew by, I'm not going to get everything down. It's like quality vs. quantity. If we sim faster, yes, we'll have more to talk about, more to write down, and more history. However, what's the quality of the things we'll be writing down? What stuff will we be missing as we fly past it? If we go slower, it will take more time to develop these things, but it will allow us to have more quality stuff. We won't miss things. The quality will be vastly improved.
That's my perspective.
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Post by Dylan (SAC) on Aug 10, 2013 13:40:33 GMT -5
My personal standpoint is this: I like to develop a connection with my players, and that is best done when the sim moves a little slower. Sim leagues that move quickly are more prone to trade frenzies, and I hate seeing teams change wholesale every week or two weeks. As far as the draft is concerned, it's the scouting reports that are the time-consuming part, and speeding up the sim would mean getting out more scouting reports in less time. It's just not feasible. Lastly, the commish team wanted this league to be similar to the NLL, an online sim league that has been going on since 2003. It is notoriously slow, even slower than this league. From 2003-2013, the league has gotten through about 16 or 17 sim seasons, but the history there is RICH. The reason for that, in my opinion, is that the leagues are not rushed. Sure, it takes longer to develop the history, but it gives everyone time to write articles and have those back and forth interactions. Think about this: If we speed up our sims, and get through a sim month in a real life week, that allows people very little time to write about things that happened that month. What is history if we can't write it down? If I have just my weekend to write about the month that just flew by, I'm not going to get everything down. It's like quality vs. quantity. If we sim faster, yes, we'll have more to talk about, more to write down, and more history. However, what's the quality of the things we'll be writing down? What stuff will we be missing as we fly past it? If we go slower, it will take more time to develop these things, but it will allow us to have more quality stuff. We won't miss things. The quality will be vastly improved. That's my perspective. Very well said Myles. I completely agree on every point he made which is why I'm against going faster. The only thing I personally would be willing to change is the days in which I sim. I could potentially move my Wednesday night sim to a Sunday Afternoon sim or something along those lines. But beyond that, Myles was spot on. |
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Post by rockman (GSW) on Aug 10, 2013 13:42:25 GMT -5
Trades are going to happen in sim leagues no matter what. They will be occuring at the same rate in game. As for the scouting reports, I suggest changing it to every other month or so (at least during certain periods) and giving us a higher limit on how many we can scout per period OR have a set minimum and then award extra scouting reports for more articles/quality of articles. If you qualify you automatically earn say 7 reports, and based on articles/participation you can be awarded up to 3-5 more. I'd hope that would make it less time consuming for you, while giving us a motivation to write/still scout plenty of guys. Problem is how often do sim leagues last that long. Sounds like the exception more than the rule. Also how many of those guys are original GM's? I'd be surprised if it was more than a handful. And we will still be able to have plenty of interaction/time to write/things to write about. Hell it might even more the weekends more active because we will have time to talk about things and build those discussions. That's why I suggest doing is based on where in the season we are. Some periods in the season are going to be slower, that's just a fact. Why not just expedite the process just a little. There isn't usually much to write about game 21 in an 82 game season and game 81 will always be more exciting, why not give it just a little push. There is a reason there has been only one insider article in the past week and a handful of wiretap's. It's the lull period the season (granted the deadline) What's the point of having the Sim schedule at this pace if the reason is so we can write articles and no one has anything to write? |
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Post by Myles (SAS) on Aug 10, 2013 13:48:09 GMT -5
Will think about the first point.
If that's not the rule, then why be the rule? Why not strive to be the exception?
And furthermore, there aren't many of the originals left. But the guys who have joined later (myself and Jestor are two GMs who joined later on) have carried on that history. The fact that there was so much rich history made it very easy to get immersed right away. Just like in the NBA, new people come and go all the time. That will happen here in the CSL, it's inevitable. People will leave, new people will join. My goal is to make it so that when new people join, they will be hooked from the get-go, and not want to leave. To me, three things determine that. 1) Layout of the website. 2) Quality of the media being put out at that point in time. 3) Richness of the history and the emphasis on that history.
And you aren't writing about Game 21. Most people, at best, write one article per week. So they are writing about 15 sim days worth of stuff, generally 5-7 games. So it's game 21-game 26/28. That's more stuff to write about, if they are writing once per week. If they write once every other week, that's double the amount of content. But if you speed up the sim, they aren't going to write more often, they'll just have more to write about and it will be watered down, IMO.
As for your last point, there will always be lulls, but wouldn't the inconsistency make things more difficult for GMs to plan for?
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Post by Myles (SAS) on Aug 10, 2013 13:51:51 GMT -5
At the same time, I'm not the only person with a say in this league. Obviously the admins will discuss this and the league is more than welcome to chime in. I want what's best for the league. This is simply my opinion and my perspective. So I'm open to changing things (for next season, I'm not in favor of changing rules/schedule etc during a season, unless absolutely necessary) if the league wants it to be changed.
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Post by rockman (GSW) on Aug 10, 2013 14:03:03 GMT -5
Will think about the first point. If that's not the rule, then why be the rule? Why not strive to be the exception? And furthermore, there aren't many of the originals left. But the guys who have joined later (myself and Jestor are two GMs who joined later on) have carried on that history. The fact that there was so much rich history made it very easy to get immersed right away. Just like in the NBA, new people come and go all the time. That will happen here in the CSL, it's inevitable. People will leave, new people will join. My goal is to make it so that when new people join, they will be hooked from the get-go, and not want to leave. To me, three things determine that. 1) Layout of the website. 2) Quality of the media being put out at that point in time. 3) Richness of the history and the emphasis on that history. And you aren't writing about Game 21. Most people, at best, write one article per week. So they are writing about 15 sim days worth of stuff, generally 5-7 games. So it's game 21-game 26/28. That's more stuff to write about, if they are writing once per week. If they write once every other week, that's double the amount of content. But if you speed up the sim, they aren't going to write more often, they'll just have more to write about and it will be watered down, IMO. As for your last point, there will always be lulls, but wouldn't the inconsistency make things more difficult for GMs to plan for? You're missing my point though, although that's probably my fault. If the point of the schedule is to build that history, and we do that through articles and we are in a lull period in the season where no one has anything to write, why not expedite the schedule to get to a point where people do have inspiration to write and build that history. We are still going to have an extremely rich/immense history with a faster sim schedule (Especially during certain months), that isn't going to change, it will only allow us to have more of it in a shorter span. Sure, maybe the quality might diminish a little, but I'd say more would be gained from building the history a tad bit faster. I imagine most of the articles that provide that rich history are done when something drastic happens to the franchise (such as trades/coach moves etc) Or when someone wants to take an in depth look at certain stats, or during important moments in the season/playoffs/off season/draft etc. We would still be able to do all those things, we would just be getting rid of some of the fat during the season. I completely understand what you guys are saying and where you are coming from, I just don't see the downside into tailoring the schedule to something that fits where we are in the season instead of having it consistent throughout. |
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Post by Myles (SAS) on Aug 10, 2013 14:18:31 GMT -5
So then what would be your suggestion in terms of doing that? Plan out next year, roughly, in the next post. For example, something like:
November: 5 sim days, 3 days per sim
December: 5 sim days, 5 days per sim
January - January 20: 5 sim days, 3 days per sim
Etc etc.
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Post by rockman (GSW) on Aug 10, 2013 14:42:45 GMT -5
I mean yeah you have the right idea.
Nov 1st-18th 3/5 (first 8-10 games of season) (6 days of sims)
Nov 19th- Jan 31st 5/5 (14 days of sims)
Feb 1st-Feb 22nd (TD) 3/5 (Week of slowed down for TD + you get weekend to work on deals.) (7 days of sims)
March 5/5 (6 days of sims)
April-Playoffs 3/5 (5 days of sims + playoffs)
I doubt the dates line up correctly and I’m sure my lazy rough math is way off but something along those lines. Takes just under 2 months to get through the regular season compared to the 3 it is now. Playoffs aren't changed will still take 3+ weeks (Which I feel will be long for teams not in the playoffs but I assume there will be plenty to write about/follow)
I’ve never gone through an off season with you guys but I’m sure it’s very through and once again we will have plenty of time to write/talk about the past season.
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Post by jake0890 (MIN) on Aug 10, 2013 14:52:07 GMT -5
There's far too few articles to continue at this slow pace imo. There is little activity weekdays and it is nonexistant on the weekends. I feel like a lot of that has to do with a sluggish pace, I can't believe were only halfway through one season. It feels like its been so much longer.
Also, if the goal is history, how can history be made when half of the GMs don't write (myself included) simply because there's nothing to write about? No articles means no history.
I just don't see a reason to stay at this pace. What stops you guys from simming 7 days per week? I'm almost positive GMs wouldnt mind changing or checking their depth chart for 10 minutes to help speed up the season.
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Post by Myles (SAS) on Aug 10, 2013 14:57:49 GMT -5
I'm gonna step back from this discussion and let the league take over. I'll chime in at times but I want to see what the league thinks.
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Post by rockman (GSW) on Aug 10, 2013 15:00:38 GMT -5
I'm gonna step back from this discussion and let the league take over. I'll chime in at times but I want to see what the league thinks. It's a tough balance between having something be a reward/requirement for scouting and having it feel like a chore. Edit: haha I must have just missed your edit. Anyway, I think the requirement is fine, it's just a matter of finding the inspiration/angle to write about. |
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Post by Dylan (SAC) on Aug 10, 2013 15:58:39 GMT -5
I just don't see a reason to stay at this pace. What stops you guys from simming 7 days per week? I'm almost positive GMs wouldnt mind changing or checking their depth chart for 10 minutes to help speed up the season. Not an option. We do have lives ya know. 5 days enough for neither of us stress over and is split up pretty well. 7 would be too much. |
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Post by jestor on Aug 10, 2013 18:46:18 GMT -5
What stops you guys from simming 7 days per week? I'm almost positive GMs wouldnt mind changing or checking their depth chart for 10 minutes to help speed up the season. Too taxing on the simmers to do it 7 days a week. |
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