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Post by LakeshowAK7 (LAL) on Jan 18, 2014 20:15:44 GMT -5
The problem is there are lots of other little factors that influence a free agent's decision to sign with a team that the game does not take into account. Sometimes players force their way somewhere via trade (look what it did for Boston IRL, it got them a championship), and sometimes players refuse to sign an extension because they want to play somewhere in particular or they want to team up with a certain player because they compliment eachother well, etc. From what I've gathered it's a combination of the money and how the team performed the year before that factor into a FA's decision in game and IMO that's not enough.
If this is ran well, this will give teams a viable way outside of trading and the draft to build a team without playing the even bigger crap shoot that is DDS Free Agency.
There will definitely need to be a certain balance between market sizes in RL and how the team is in the CSL world as things are a tad bit different here.
I also think it's important that all of the agents are on the same page in terms of the value of players so that there is a sense of consistency among the contracts being signed. We are a group of 30 (sans 3 open teams) guys who all view the NBA and a players value differently.
And ultimately if a player agent is indeed a major player in the off-season with his CSL team, it wouldn't be hard for Myles or Dylan or another mod to subtlety step in and handle the negotiations for that player. Or even another agent.
The big thing here is, we all have to understand the value of the league in general and realize there's no real incentive to having an agenda in regards to free agent decisions as it would just ruin the league.
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dennisj (BOS)
General Manager
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Post by dennisj (BOS) on Jan 18, 2014 20:26:31 GMT -5
The problem is there are lots of other little factors that influence a free agent's decision to sign with a team that the game does not take into account. Sometimes players force their way somewhere via trade (look what it did for Boston IRL, it got them a championship), and sometimes players refuse to sign an extension because they want to play somewhere in particular or they want to team up with a certain player because they compliment eachother well, etc. From what I've gathered it's a combination of the money and how the team performed the year before that factor into a FA's decision in game and IMO that's not enough. If this is ran well, this will give teams a viable way outside of trading and the draft to build a team without playing the even bigger crap shoot that is DDS Free Agency. There will definitely need to be a certain balance between market sizes in RL and how the team is in the CSL world as things are a tad bit different here. I also think it's important that all of the agents are on the same page in terms of the value of players so that there is a sense of consistency among the contracts being signed. We are a group of 30 (sans 3 open teams) guys who all view the NBA and a players value differently. And ultimately if a player agent is indeed a major player in the off-season with his CSL team, it wouldn't be hard for Myles or Dylan or another mod to subtlety step in and handle the negotiations for that player. Or even another agent. The big thing here is, we all have to understand the value of the league in general and realize there's no real incentive to having an agenda in regards to free agent decisions as it would just ruin the league. Yeah you are absolutely right! But are those agents able to figure the needs a players has out or is it more fair to change nothing. I just dont like the idea guys out of the league would be agents. Not saying they wont be subjective, but deals will always have a negative connotation. Always. Get jestor back on track and name him Arn Tellem, lol^^.. So a big city, sunny weather, franchise history or if the Franchise owns another superstar will be a factor for upcoming negotiations? Glad Im Boston, just need a superstar next to the History etc  . Just dont know how it should work out. It would be more realistic, absolutely, just cant see a way to get it done like this. |
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Post by bestnamezRtaken (DAL) on Jan 18, 2014 20:50:23 GMT -5
It's really tough to say...I think it's a great idea and it'd definitely make the league a little more realistic. I remember in a league I ran, we tried doing agencies, and it sort of failed because we didn't really do it the right way...also, the league folded the same year due to busy schedules for us.
Anyways, I'm with Dennis on this...I'd be up for it, but it's got to be done correctly, carefully, and consistently. The thing is...if say, LeBron James' agent decides that he wants to test the FA market and become an UFA...the GM of LeBron is going to be FURIOUS and more than likely, will not like the agency at all due to him having LeBron test the waters...and if James signed elsewhere...Yeah. I'm just not quite sure about the agencies. I don't know...unless there is a 100% fool proof plan for this, then I'm all for it. Otherwise, I think I'm going to go with no on this.
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Post by yuedar (ORL) on Jan 18, 2014 21:03:52 GMT -5
I am interested in seeing this play out, how would we know what player belongs to what agent tho?
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Post by Dylan (SAC) on Jan 18, 2014 21:10:14 GMT -5
I am interested in seeing this play out, how would we know what player belongs to what agent tho? That's not an issue at all. We'll have some sort of list/spreadsheet somewhere. |
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Post by rockman (GSW) on Jan 18, 2014 22:23:22 GMT -5
Great idea in theory but I have reservations for all the reasons people have listed. If someone gets mad at a signing (or whatever) all we can do is get mad at the game, but it's the same parameters everyone is working with. I'm afraid this would give a face for people to get frustrated at, and that isn't necessarily a good thing.
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Post by WillyJakkz (HOU) on Jan 18, 2014 23:13:47 GMT -5
Tough call cause I'd really hate to see a team lose a player due to the player wanting to go to what they feel could possibly be a better situation only to have said better situation be a ploy just to gather more assets to trade.
Yeah I understand sometimes the FA simply isn't working out which could be reflected thru tangibly seeing the stats/ production of team or player which could be understandable but not just oh I have capspace I wanna sign and build a team then once TR is lifted then it's "ok I'm tired of this team I wanna rebuild or trade these FA's for draft picks etc".
On the fence about this as of now though I do like the general idea of it cause DDS FA sim was kinda ridiculous last season as well (Chris Kaman decision comes to mind by choosing vet min to be 3rd C on Indy instead of starting C in Minny or backup w a chance to start in Houston for multi million/ MLE offers respectively.)
Gotta think this over cause it can't be worse but may not be in best interest of League as a whole.
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Post by orangeparka (MIA) on Jan 19, 2014 0:08:12 GMT -5
Great idea in theory but I have reservations for all the reasons people have listed. If someone gets mad at a signing (or whatever) all we can do is get mad at the game, but it's the same parameters everyone is working with. I'm afraid this would give a face for people to get frustrated at, and that isn't necessarily a good thing. Yeah this, sorta. Blaming the engine's easy, but if it's a person... |
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Post by Myles (SAS) on Jan 19, 2014 0:30:52 GMT -5
1) Market size will not play a role, neither will history before the CSL.
2) All agents will be GMs in our league, and will be overseen by myself and Dylan (who will likely be agents).
3) We'd have rules drawn up based on player personalities to determine whether or not a player wants to extend (taking into account desire to play for winner, desire for playing time, and loyalty), and then will use a similar formula for interest in teams in FA (also taking into account greed in that situation as well).
4) I know the "getting mad" issue but also I think we are all adults here who can respect each other. And even though there will be someone to get mad at, the agents will be as tightlipped as the game. There will be no responding from the agents after the decision post has been made, so in that sense, it will be like the game.
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Post by cyrisnyte (WAS) on Jan 19, 2014 0:48:07 GMT -5
I'm all for this. I know with Minny last year, I had a much larger offer on the table for Kaman who was going to walk into a starting role. He went to Indy instead for a MUCH cheaper deal. Realistic to a degree.
Will we know what each player is looking for in terms of - Playing Time, Greed, Play for Winner in a spreadsheet or just look in game and base it off that?
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dennisj (BOS)
General Manager
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Posts: 311
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Post by dennisj (BOS) on Jan 19, 2014 1:28:57 GMT -5
Tough call cause I'd really hate to see a team lose a player due to the player wanting to go to what they feel could possibly be a better situation only to have said better situation be a ploy just to gather more assets to trade. Yeah I understand sometimes the FA simply isn't working out which could be reflected thru tangibly seeing the stats/ production of team or player which could be understandable but not just oh I have capspace I wanna sign and build a team then once TR is lifted then it's "ok I'm tired of this team I wanna rebuild or trade these FA's for draft picks etc". On the fence about this as of now though I do like the general idea of it cause DDS FA sim was kinda ridiculous last season as well (Chris Kaman decision comes to mind by choosing vet min to be 3rd C on Indy instead of starting C in Minny or backup w a chance to start in Houston for multi million/ MLE offers respectively.) Gotta think this over cause it can't be worse but may not be in best interest of League as a whole. IMO the kaman signing is the same what Dylan and myles are proposing. With agents you cant predict where the player will be going. There will be more kaman cases. Because you can always argue sth like: kaman/ak/dirk/etc wont sign for MLE joining a Team like minny if they get a chance to join a contender with Miami etc. You could also argue the other way round, they will join minny because of playing time. But how would the agents know in which case they would decide which way? Ok they take a look at the character, fine. But what is the border? Above 50 in "more playing time" would let him go to minny and under to Miami? And what if he got a type of character which says he wants money + playing for a contender. Which Team would get him if minny and IND offer contracts? Which part of his character is "worth" more? Soooo many open questions. Given the kaman example I dont get why People saying they hated to see kaman join Indy instead of minny are supporting this. it will Happen more often then that a player joins a contender for a vet min instead of playing for the lottery team.. And like said. People wont rage at the machine anymore they would be angry about people and given that its more likely they leave the league because they feel treated wrong.. Let us take a look at minny. If love would have had an expiring contract last year, Im pretty sure he wont have signed an extension (like he wont if minny is still a lottery Team by the time his contract really expires). Its pretty hard what the minny GM would have said then. Not getting kaman - ok, loosing love would be huuuuuge, but that would be realistic. I dont know. I just really dont like this idea. Myles (SAS): yeah we are all adults, but that doesnt matter if people are leaving the league because they believe it was a wrong decision/they felt treated wrong. The flaming wont be the problem, there will always be flaming. And it wont be like in the game. Even if the agents wont answer anymore. In the game we have all to deal with the same parameters which could be positive or negative. With agents there is a Person behind the decision. For every franchise, GM the agent will behave different. Could be a huuuuge advantage for some franchises. |
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Post by jestor on Jan 19, 2014 2:24:17 GMT -5
The way PAs are handled in the league I co-commish is that PAs need to follow the balance of factors (Greed, Play for Win, Playing Time, and Loyalty) of a player's profile and compare those against the various package each bidding team offers. There will always be some tough decisions to make, and not everyone will be happy with all decisions made.
Beyond those basic parameters, the PA can decide how they want to set up. I've had some PAs come up with statistically based power rankings for use with PFW, other PAs will take the amount/quality of media pursuing teams write about a player, etc. It allows for the agencies to each have a different flair while still maintaining the integrity of the PA and characteristics system.
The fact of the matter is, no setup, whether in game or with PAs, is going to be perfect. There's pros and cons to each situation.
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Post by jestor on Jan 19, 2014 2:28:25 GMT -5
Oh, and I should also add that before free agency, we post the list of players we've assigned to each agency and ask if there's any conflicts where an agency has a player on their list they plan to pursue in FA. If there are, then we swap players between agencies so that none of the PAs have a client they themselves plan to go after in free agency.
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Post by Myles (SAS) on Jan 19, 2014 2:48:51 GMT -5
Oh, and I should also add that before free agency, we post the list of players we've assigned to each agency and ask if there's any conflicts where an agency has a player on their list they plan to pursue in FA. If there are, then we swap players between agencies so that none of the PAs have a client they themselves plan to go after in free agency. Yeah, this will be the case as well. There will absolutely be no conflicts of interest, if there is a player that a certain agent is planning on pursuing, he will not represent that player. |
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dennisj (BOS)
General Manager
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Post by dennisj (BOS) on Jan 19, 2014 6:57:44 GMT -5
Seems my question has been overseen. Obviously because I wrote so much. Myles (SAS): You said we would be able to extend palyers if its possible ingame. So it doesnt matter if they arent in their last year or not? |
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